Atticus Ross - Trent Reznor And Atticus Ross Find The Musicality In Noise With 'Gone Girl' lyrics

John Schaefer: In the world of film scoring, it seems that at one end of the spectrum you have the composer that gets the film and is told "I need the score in two weeks." Then at the other end, you have someone like Philip Gla** -- who works with Godfried Reggio on those silent documentaries, and they are actually cut to his music. Where on that spectrum are you? Trent Reznor: I would say we are a little more on the Gla** side of things. When we were brought into the fold with David [Fincher] -- it being the first film that I ever scored, The Social Network, a few years ago, and not knowing necessarily the right process or not understanding the process yet -- we tried something that wound up really working for us. And that was Atticus and I have worked together for years. With Atticus, I've found a partner that's a true collaborator; we've worked on Nine Inch Nails together, our other band How to Destroy Angels, a variety of projects. We have a great way of working now where we almost don't have to speak. We just complement each other's abilities So when faced with scoring this film, my first reaction was one of panic, of "How do we quickly learn the correct way to actually score film, the procedure, the process?" Then we paused, and said "Let's adapt our method of composing to this and see if it works." With no picture, just a script and a number of conversations with David -- [we] decided to spend a few weeks composing purely from an impressionistic, kind of subconscious viewpoint. Not scene-specific, [but] music we felt defined what could be the world of the film – the landscape, the sound, the architecture, the arrangement, the kind of tone -- to run past David and see, "Are we honing in on something that works?" That strategy proved liberating for us, and comfortable for us, and familiar to us. From that point it became much more traditional, I imagine, in the sense that now we're working to picture and folding these ideas into the actual fabric of the film. Some of it was then cut to the music, a lot of it was music fitting scenes that had been filmed JS: So on the Gone Girl soundtrack we get expanded versions of shorter cues as they are used in the film? Atticus Ross: Actually, on the soundtrack we go back to that early writing session. Because we'll start with these impressionistic, broad-stroked ideas, but they'll often be five minutes long -- some longer you know on [The Girl With The] Dragon Tattoo. Once we've actually finished the film we can go back to these longer compositions, flesh them out a little bit. The album is meant to stand up as its own piece of listening JS: You are used to working in a medium where the music is the focus of attention. In a film, that's not necessarily the case: the music affects us as viewers almost subliminally, which seems like it would allow you, as composers, the opportunity to do some pretty interesting things to listeners expectations and mindset TR: It's an interesting shift in style of composition. If I'm writing a song for Nine Inch Nails, I'm hoping that that's eating up close to 100 percent of your attention and what's coming in your ears. I've got center stage: I'm the actor on the front of the stage and I'm on the set I designed Working with film, we quickly realized that our role here is in service to the picture, and it's in service to David's vision of what that picture is. And that's actually refreshing. It's refreshing not to be in the driver's seat and to work with someone who we have an immense amount of respect for, and there is mutual respect, and can help execute that vision and bend his vision and hopefully exceed what he'd been dreaming of. So a lot of times it's us checking our ego at the door and [asking] "How can we make this scene this feeling the best it can be and the most manipulative if that's what he's looking for?" And often that's not the big Star Wars theme that you hum when you leave the movie. It's more about the underpinnings of how we're tweaking your emotional reaction to things JS: And that seems to be a theme that runs through the entire Gone Girl soundtrack. There is an upfront, almost narrative keyboard-based line -- and then there is this subverted stuff that happens underneath. The piece called “Sugar Storm,” for example, starts like a piece of New Age music. But as you're listening, there's this darkness around the edges. What's the intent there? AR: In our initial conversation with David, he had mentioned that he'd been in a chiropractor in New York and there had been this music playing -- sort of spa music -- and he found and gave us the album. Because the film is about façades and pretense and how that changes, he thought maybe a jumping off place would be this spa album. And then we're traversing that storyline of the façade that turns in itself and becomes much more curdled. So you'll see some pieces of the music, you'll hear them in one form earlier in the film, and then you'll hear what they turn into later in the film JS: So what are those noises that are increasingly occupying the sonic space as that work goes on? TR: That particular [sound] was an improvised modular synth solo that I was messing around with. It glitches through different waveforms and it sounded oddly organic to me. Sounded flutey or something that seemed like a real instrument -- but isn't actually at all. In that piece, the theme was starting with the idea of something that might make you feel comfortable, but in an insincere fashion. Something that is meant to feel a little Muzak-ish, a little cheap and plastic, a little Casio rather than philharmonic. Because often when you first hear these themes, it's Amy's [Rosamund Pike's character] diary entries which you learn later are not entirely accurate. It's sort of rose-colored gla**es recollection or what she is setting you up to believe is the truth When they play later in the film and you realize things are very different than that. We wanted it to feel familiar but suddenly have an element in there -- or several elements -- that you may not have noticed creep in. And suddenly you're uncomfortable sitting in your seat and your stomach is tight and we've introduced some dissonance in various forms of stuff that you've probably or hopefully didn't notice in her, but suddenly "Why do I feel uneasy?" And that was one of the methods we did there. JS: Some of these motifs come back later and there is, in fact, an actual reprise of the piece “Sugar Storm.” But it seems like that very placid lovely New Age chord progression that we hear at the beginning of “Sugar Storm” comes back in a much faster form in one of the later parts of the piece AR: I'm not sure and I get a little confused sometimes because our names are working titles and then change for the album. I think you are referring to the reprise when [Amy] comes out to the car covered in blood, falls into his arms. That particular piece is a little winking because there is an aspect of Gone Girl that is comedy depending on how sick you are. You know, it's how funny you'll find it. I find it quite funny at points. And that is one of the funny moments when she falls into his arms in that pose and he whispers in her ear TR: That piece “Sugar Storm” -- you first hear it when [Pike and Ben Affleck's characters Amy and Nick] are meeting for the first time at a party. There was some experimenting done even in the mix where the wall of everyone talking at this party is quite loud at first, and as they start to find a connection with this piece playing in the background, the wall starts to disappear to where as they find each other you also realize the background of what you're hearing is disappearing and they're becoming more intimate. And to hear that piece reappear, when they are reunited when she walks out bloody in the car, it's very clear what is happening. It felt like an interesting juxtaposition JS: It seems like it is clear, but then again, nothing is ever what it seems. What's interesting is this kind of threshold that you have between music and noise. It turns out to be a very movable threshold throughout. When you get to the piece “The Way That He Looks At Me,” the noise is really upfront in an in-your-face kind of way and doesn't seem to be subliminal at all. It's the main focus TR: In terms of use of noise and instrumentation, I was thinking about this quite a bit. I've never been a purest about really anything. When I started Nine Inch Nails I wanted it to be a band; I wanted to have three other people that had a defined sound and I could bring a song and it starts to sound like The Smiths or sound like U2 -- bands that had a sound. When I couldn't find anybody, I started to treat the studio as an instrument. And [in] the early ‘90s, to use electronics was frowned upon in a rock band to some degree. If you used a backing track live, which we did because I liked the sound of a sequencer -- it wasn't because I couldn't get people to play it. I like the sound of a machine at times. So I chose that machine And carrying it into how we work now, we're simply trying to take the sound in our head and get it into your ears. And if that's a room full of people and an orchestra that helps us achieve that, great. If it's an old piece of electronic gear, great. If it's a sample, great. It's rarely ever anything chosen because it's a quicker way to get to something. It's just using them at tools; a computer has always been a tool for us And to get to your point about noise -- it's just sound. When I started to find a musicality in noise -- I always have -- when I could have access to samplers early, that was part of an arrangement tool just like a guitar or drums or anything else. To be able to treat that into the arrangement and be part of it, we intimately get involved with Ren Klyce -- who mixes all of David's movies and does all of the sound effects. He's part of our compositional process, because when we're placing music in the scenes, we're also aware that it's not just that piece of music; there's dialogue, there's sound effects, there's a room tone, there's an air conditioner running, there's a truck going by. We'll consult, "Hey what key is the tone of that room tone? Can we transpose our track or could you transpose that?" so that it becomes an in-concert symphony of sound that spills over from traditional music into sound design. To me they're interlocked We've gone through the frustration of making a piece that we think is perfect, and then, in a film, it's not just that piece. "Ah, it's not loud enough cause they're talking. Why do they have to be talking?" So why not consider where it's going to live in the end JS: Is it unusual to work that closely with the sound design in the scoring of a film? AR: Well with this particular team -- Trent and David, Kirk [Baxter] the editor, and Ren -- it is very close. We've been able to achieve things that I think not so much in other cases. But in Dragon Tattoo, one of my favorite bits is -- there's a floor cleaner and we tuned that into... one doesn't necessarily think of a floor cleaner as threatening, because it was leading into the bl**job scene. That whirring we turned into the key of what came in. And suddenly it turned into this dark [moment]. It's one of my favorite bits TR: What's great about the team is that, in the David Fincher camp, there's a familiarity, and respect and collaborative spirit and nobody's set in their ways for how things have to be. We found there's always a willingness, and we're receiving a lot of that too. You know what if we try something like this, and we're allowed to do that. It's very opening JS: To come back to this piece with “The Way He Looks At Me,” when the noise part of it up front, what does this do to the sound design team? Like, "We've got this un-pitched, allegedly, unfocused sound very much a part of the score. Now you have to work with that." TR: Certainly we're eating up space that would have possibly been in the world of that. And that‘s a consideration. When it's being placed, that's not an add on; we don't add the noise at the end, it's a part of the initial thing. "Would this be a possibility to live in this space?" When if we all agree on it, then the accommodation is made. Just like I was complaining about dialogue in the way of my great piece of music, there's an exchange there JS: The schedule for doing Gone Girl coincided with a new Nine Inch Nails album, Hesitation Marks, and a tour. How did you juggle that? TR: When we finished Dragon Tattoo, the experiences that Atticus and I had with David were so tremendous, inspiring, and it motivates us to think in a different way in our world outside the film world -- naturally we wanted to continue. The plan was a different film. He was going to do 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea and that was going to start right about now, because it was a much longer pre-production time. We had been working on a Nine Inch Nails record and were talking about a tour. [So we said] “Hey let's fit a tour in, before the work would start on the next film. I've got the next four years of my life planned out.” And as soon as I put that tour on sale, then I got the call, saying “Hey, we're not going to do that film next, we're going to do Gone Girl and it's going to start right exactly during your tour.” And I was faced with a situation where I was going to have to pa** on the film, which I really didn't want to do -- or try to figure out how I can wedge that into a schedule where I'm physically not going to be in the same place for that long. It wound up, in hindsight, working to our benefit, but it made for a somewhat stressful -- on my part -- scenario where I'd be on tour for a six week chunk, say in Australia, be back in two weeks, and during those two weeks, day one we would start an intense composition session, leave for another six weeks, back for another three weeks The benefit of that is we had an objectivity that we normally wouldn't have. Because we don't fill our schedule with multiple projects. We like to -- probably due to our own insecurity -- leave enough time that we can put 110 percent of what we have capable into a project as important as a David Fincher film, and know that we have the luxury that if we screw up or go down a blind alley, or it's not as great as it can be, we're going to redo it and get it right This took away some of that safety net. But the process, once we got out of the anxiety phase, was very inspiring. When we were working it felt like ideas were flowing. I look back at it fondly. But during the time, I always felt guilty like, "What if it's not good enough?" It felt weird at the time. We got it done and I think it turned out great and we're very proud of it. But I wouldn't consciously do that again JS: Do you find, having been up to your necks in Nine Inch Nails songs, that some of that carries over into your composition work? There's a song called “Secrets.” When I hear this track, I think "If Trent was singing, it could be a Nine Inch Nails song." Do you try to avoid that? Is it unavoidable? TR: Something we consciously put a lot of effort into, before a project starts -- whether that be an album or a film -- we spend a fair amount of time trying to define it cerebrally. That could be the types of instrumentation, types of recording techniques, limitations we have self-imposed. And we find that helps us achieve the ultimate goal, which is each thing feels like it's own construction. It doesn't feel like a continuation of the last three things, that bled into the next thing. And that means making us feel uncomfortable in some fashion If the instrument I know can achieve a certain thing that is within arms reach, I'm going to reach for it, and I'm gonna play something that then I'll eventually say "It sounds similar to the thing that I just played, because I already know how to do that thing." If we move those things out of the room or we tape our fingers together or we somehow prevent ourselves from doing that the established choice. The goal is you'd hear each film or you'd hear each album and say "That is a complete piece of work that stands on it's own away from these things." It takes time and it slows the process down, but that matters to us JS: So if I'm hearing Nine Inch Nails in this piece “Secrets,” is that something that inadvertently bled into the score? TR: Certainly who we are creeps into it. And I wouldn't discount your opinion on that and I would agree with it. But the intention is that it's not that. The intention is that they're not interchangeable pieces. That's what we're aiming for, best we can try to achieve AR: A unique identity to each thing. But I think there's an inherent aesthetic that is embodied in oneself that will cross the boundaries TR: I mean Atticus and I sat in the same room for a period of three years and did Social Network, Dragon Tattoo, How to Destroy Angels album and a Nine Inch Nails album. And they feel pretty different to me. If you look at pictures from all those eras, it's the same purple curtains and it's us probably in the same clothes JS: The sonic climax of the film is the track “Consummation,” which has a really loud, blatting almost overblown bra** sound. Did you know at the time of writing that this was going to have to be something really special and this was kind of a narrative high point? TR: That piece in particular was written for that scene specifically. A lot of what we do, the initial process is coloring outside the lines. We purposely don't name the tracks anything tangible so we don't want to taint what David thinks when he hears, “This is called ‘Consummation.'” We begin our process by experimenting and writing quite a bit of music that could just kind of fit anywhere but feels like it belongs in the film. That particular piece you mentioned was fairly well into the process where we realized, "Alright, what's the guttural sound?" Given what's come before and what's about to happen afterwards -- clearly this is the moment that's going to be the most visceral JS: This is your shower scene TR: Yeah exactly. So how can we do that in an interesting way? After we had written the piece we experimented with that filter opening and close to give it that undulating sound. That then inspired the cut of the scene itself JS: Fincher's editing of the scene? TR: Tweaked a bit to fit. Often we found through the films, sometimes the music then determines the actual cut. The Regatta scene in Social Network was cut to the music. Clearly the opening credits of Dragon Tattoo cut to the beat of [How To Destroy Angels' version of Led Zeppelin's] “Immigrant Song.” That's not normally how it is. There is an element of that that occurs JS: I don't want to give people who haven't seen the movie or heard the score the feeling that it is completely dark and bleak and ominous. Because there are moments of respite. The “Sugar Storm (Reprise)” is a nice moment if you divorce it from the film and take it sonically. But then there's this piece called, “Just Like You.” Who's playing the piano on this? TR: As much as I'd like to say that that was me playing the piano, that's actually Mike Garson. We had composed the piece of music that's based on that lives in the scene leading up to that. In one location it goes from score into what should sound like lounge piano happening in the actual environment where he's proposing to her. There was something temp in there that was just generic lounge piano music. And we thought, "What if we had the greatest lounge pianist in the world interpreting the track that we had written that's right before that?" The greatest pianist that I've ever encountered is Mike Garson. He's played with Bowie over the years JS: He did that amazing solo in "Aladdin Sane." TR: He's a genius, unquestionably. So I called him up and he was available and he gave us several variations. So that goes from our piece and segways into his interpretation of our piece. And he just did such a beautiful job of it, and if you tune into that piece you're just like, “Wow, who is that guy playing that piece?” JS: Have you paid attention to film scores before getting into it yourselves? AR: I would say yes, but not in the same way that I paid attention to records and bands. But, I love movies. And, sometimes it will be a case where I don't notice music. But of course, over the years, there have been incredible pieces of music stuck in my mind from being a little child: Anything from Jaws to Psycho to Star Wars to Paris, Texas. It could go on and on and on. It's been part of the soundtrack of my life. You know I think film, as well as records, that's how I‘ve ingested music TR: I love film, I see as many as I can. What I love about it is the escape -- I can get outside of being me for a couple hours. When asked this question, I realize I had never paid that much attention to the music because I haven't divorced myself from the whole experience -- unless it's exceptional and it jumps out where I think I couldn't imagine this film without that music. Birdman is an example of that this year. Under The Skin is another one, where it feels this film is defined by the music and the role it plays Or conversely, if it's something I feel fights, feels inauthentic, or inappropriate I take conscious notice of it. I've got friends, musicians who will say, “Listen to this track, listen to the amazing kick drum in this song.” [And I'll say] “Yeah, but the song s**s.” I hate when you become a technician and you can't enjoy it emotionally anymore as a human because you're so familiar with the craft that you're deconstructing it in a way As we've started making music for films, I've been amazed at the power when it's you in the driver seat. I've been amazed at the emotional manipulation that one has at their disposal. It's not that I didn't consciously know that, but to see how a film can change with what you can add to it. It's very empowering and interesting. At the same time I don't want to give up that escape I need as a human to actually enjoy films where now I'm just studying the different crafts behind the different elements of it JS: The first two scores the two of you did, was very much your own sound. There is an additional sound on this Gone Girl score we haven't heard from you guys: orchestra. I a**ume this is not a decision you made lightly TR: We kind of made it lightly actually. And I'll tell you why. So far, David has kind of said, “I'm not looking for an orchestral, traditional sounding type score." On this particular case as we went down the path of things sounding a bit organic and the subset of instruments we chose and the direction that started to find itself as seemingly appropriate for this material, we started to get on a path with a couple pieces, we implied what would be a string section playing something. And it then naturally saying, "If the right way is to make it sound that way, let's get a string section, let's do a day with an orchestra." And we had maybe about an hour's worth of what we needed to check the box. The rest of the day we were able to experiment with a room full of 65 people and seeing how that blended in some other things. It was an amazing day that I hope was the tip of the iceberg of what's to come in the future. To see how that sound integrated, complimented, fought at times our sound, the hint of possibilities -- our appetite has been whet by that JS: In your own writing, whether with Nine Inch Nails or How To Destroy Angels, two very different bands, has this experience -- composing films over a course of several years -- changed your songwriting process? AR: For me, making music is a continuous learning experience and I think that it feeds itself. There's no doubt that the experience that one's had over the course of these last few years and the more that one's learned plays into the future TR: I agree with that. When Social Network arrived at our doorstep, I was fairly burnt out in the column of working in the Nine Inch Nails. I kind of felt like I needed inspiration as a composer. I felt like I was hitting my head against the wall to some degree. To then be able to apply some sk**s I had in a different way in working, a different set of rules, with different brains behind it -- and also not being the boss, I found liberating without the pressure and working in service to David and to the picture. Those were starting points I wouldn't have in my day job. I left that experience really motivated to want to work inside Nine Inch Nails again and feeling regenerated. As Atticus says, what matters to us is feeling like we're moving forward in reinvention and discovering and learning and failing JS: That hasn't' happened yet. You have one Oscar and one Grammy and two attempts TR: The process of getting there is littered with failure: The ideas that didn't work and things you thought would be a good idea. But hopefully most of them we've thrown out and they haven't made it to your ears yet. But it's not about being comfortable. Part of it is our own built-in insecurities. Sitting in a movie theatre after seeing Gone Girl countless times -- making it -- seeing it in a room full of people as the credits pop up at the end, and you see people uncomfortably getting up in their seats and that gut-churning music playing -- that's not that slap on the back like, “Hey, put your popcorn in the garbage.” It's more of a “What did I just go through? I'm afraid to talk to my spouse because maybe we're on opposite sides of what we should feel about this.” And seeing that happen is incredibly inspirational and a great sense of pride of working in these pictures. I'm very grateful to have the opportunity to have that