MS. ALIZADEH: This is Kathi Alizadeh. It is about 3:20 on the 16th of September. We are about to call our final witness, Darren Wilson. And as usual, Sheila and I will be asking him questions and you are free to ask questions either interrupting or wait until the end, however you feel is better for the flow of things. He is here and prepared to answer questions. I would tell you that any conversations that he has had with his attorney, because you heard him talk and we have heard testimony that he has had an attorney during parts of this, anything that he and his attorney have talked about are what we call privileged communications. And so you can't ask him about what did you tell your attorney or what did your attorney say about that, all right. Any other questions that you think are relevant are fair game, but the communications between anyone and their attorney are privileged and we can't inquire about that, all right? All right. That being said, I am going to let him walk in and get sworn.
DARREN WILSON, of lawful age, having been first duly sworn to testify the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in the case aforesaid, deposes and says in reply to oral interrogatories, propounded as follows, to-wit:
EXAMINATION
QUESTION [Q:] (By MS. WHIRLEY) So introduce yourself to the grand jurors, tell us your name and spell your name for the court reporter, please?
ANSWER [A:] My name is Darren Wilson. D-A-R-R-E-N last name W-I-L-S-O-N.
Q: Have you appeared before this grand jury before?
A: No, I have not.
Q: So you've never, nobody is familiar to you here, correct?
A: No, ma'am.
Q: All right. You are currently on leave or what's your status right now?
A: I am on paid administrative leave.
Q: Now, we have never met before, have we?
A: No, ma'am.
Q: And we did meet right before you came here today, when you came here today and I talked to you and your attorneys?
A: Correct.
Q: And you came here voluntarily?
A: Correct.
Q: And you were told that if you wanted to consult with your attorneys you could?
A: Correct.
Q: Okay. And you want to be here and tell the jurors what happened; is that correct?
A: That's correct.
Q: So August the 9th of 2014, you worked as a police officer for the Ferguson Police Department?
A: Correct.
Q: That means you are a certified police officer?
A: Correct.
Q: Had you completed all your training and kept up with your continuing education as a certified officer does?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: You have the power of arrest?
A: Correct.
Q: In the State of Missouri?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: What's your height?
A: 6'4”. Just a shy under 6'4”.
Q: A little under 6'4”?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: And how much do you currently weigh?
A: 210-ish.
Q: That's been your weight for a while?
A: Yeah, it fluctuates between 205, 212, 213, something like that.
Q: Of course everybody knows why we're here, so let's just get to it.
A: Okay.
Q: Let's talk about your day on August the 9th. What shift did you work?
A: Day shift.
Q: And what shift would that be, what hours?
A: 6:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m.
Q: Twelve hour shift?
A: Correct.
Q: Had you worked the day before?
A: Yes, I had.
Q: Same shift?
A: Yes.
Q: You weren't working like midnights the night before?
A: No, ma'am.
Q: When you started your shift, did anything happen that you consider very eventful? I mean, earlier that day, prior to 10:00 let's say, 10:00a.m.
A: No, ma'am.
Q: Had you answered any calls prior to 10:00a.m.?
A: I don't recall, I don't believe so, but I don't recall, nothing stands out in my memory.
Q: It was a pretty quiet day initially?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: Now, at some point you had a sick call, a sick baby, I think?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: And that would have been ll-ish or so?
A: I think it was around ll:30-ish, somewhere in that vicinity.
Q: That was near the Canfield Green Apartments?
A: Yes, ma'am, it was actually past them in the adjoining apartment complex.
Q: And what do they call those apartments?
A: I believe that apartment is called Northwinds.
Q: Northwinds. Okay. And it is like east of the Canfield Green, behind those apartments?
A: Correct.
Q: When you went on that call, did you have a**istance?
A: No, I did not.
Q: All right.
A: Not police a**istance.
Q: No police a**istance?
A: No.
Q: You handled that call by yourself?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: And did you have any confrontation with anybody or was everything, was it a pretty as a matter of fact call?
A: It was a pretty laid-back call. It was for a sick infant, I believe, only a couple months old.
Q: Okay.
A: I believe she had a fever, I'm not 100 percent sure.
Q: Let me ask this question, can everybody hear him? Speak up. I usually stand in the back of the room so we can have a conversation. As you can tell, my voice really carries, so try to, you know, speak up so everybody can hear you.
A: Okay.
Q: So the baby was an infant?
A: Correct.
Q: Was the baby not breathing, what was the call, do you recall?
A: I believe it was for a fever.
Q: Fever you said, I'm sorry. _____ Ambulance arrived?
A: Yes, ambulance arrived at the same time I arrived.
Q: Okay. Baby went to the hospital with its mother?
A: The mother and baby were transported.
Q: After that, what did you do?
A: I returned to my vehicle and then started to leave the apartment complex.
Q: Okay. Did you get any other calls between the time of the sick baby call and your interaction with Michael Brown and Dorian Johnson?
A: While on the sick case call, a call came out for a stealing in progress from the local market on West Florissant, that the suspects traveling towards QT. I didn't hear the entire call, I was on my portable radio, which isn't exactly the best. I did hear that a suspect was wearing a black shirt and that a box of Cigarillos was stolen.
Q: Okay. And was this your call or you just heard the call?
A: It was not my call, I heard the call.
Q: Some other officers were dispatched to that call?
A: I believe two others were.
Q: Was it a call that you were going to go to also?
A: No.
Q: So you weren't really geared to handle that call?
A: No.
Q: Tell us how you were dressed that day on August the 9th?
A: How I was dressed?
Q: Yes.
A: I was wearing my full department uniform, light duty boots, dark navy blue pants, my issue duty belt, with my uniform shirt and that was it.
Q: All right. And so when you say, when you are in uniform, you were not a detective?
A: No, ma'am.
Q: You weren't dressed the way you are dressed here today?
A: No, ma'am.
Q: So your uniform is like a uniform police officer and when you are walking around I can clearly see oh, that's a police officer?
A: Yes, ma'am, I believe it is french blue uniform shirt, had patches for Ferguson on both sides, badge, name tag.
Q: Okay. And you were in what type of vehicle?
A: Chevy Tahoe police vehicle fully marked with a light bar.
Q: Fully marked, okay. Tell us, you were mentioning your radio or what is this you spoke about?
A: Walkie is what we normally call it.
Q: I'm sorry?
A: Our walkie is what we normally call it.
Q: Like a walkie-talkie or something?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: And it did work that day?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. And it was on which shoulder?
A: I wear it on my left shoulder.
Q: Are you left or right-handed?
A: I'm right-handed.
Q: Okay. Tell us what else is on your duty belt?
A: I have my, I'll go in order. Magazine pouches sit right here, my weapon is on my right hip, I have an asp that sits kind of behind me and kind of to the right and then a set of handcuffs, another set of handcuffs, my OC spray or mace is on this side and then my radio and that's it.
Q: Okay. So your mace is on your left side and your gun is on your right side?
A: Correct.
Q: What type of weapon did you carry?
A: I carry Sig Sauer, a P229 .40 caliber.
Q: How many cartridges or bullets would it hold?
A: It has 12 in the magazine and one goes in the chamber, so a total of 13.
Q: You had a couple spare magazines on your belt?
A: Correct.
Q: That had 12 each?
A: Correct.
Q: Did you carry a taser?
A: No.
Q: Why not?
A: I normally don't carry a taser. We only have a select amount. Usually there is one available, but I usually elect not to carry one. It is not the most comfortable thing. They are very large, I don't have a lot of room in the front for it to be positioned.
Q: Had you been trained on how to use a taser?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: Have you ever used a taser before?
A: I believe I have, but it wasn't one that I carried. It was one that I used from someone else on a scene. I can't remember the time or where I used it.
Q: You prefer not to have a taser?
A: Correct.
Q: So that day you had mace, you said, on your left side?
A: Correct.
Q: All right. You are coming west, is it on Canfield Drive?
A: Yes, I started out on Glenark and then I turn onto Bahama and then onto Glen Owen, and then I turned on Windward, which actually turns into Canfield Green and that's where I was going west on that.
Q: West on Canfield Drive?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: Okay. We are going to get a map here shortly so you can kind of map it out for us. So as you are going west on Canfield Drive, what happens?
A: As I was going west on Canfield, I observed two men in the middle of the street, they are walking along the double yellow line single file order.
Q: Okay. And you say something to them, did they say something to you first?
A: No, you want me to just go with the whole thing?
Q: Sure, go ahead, let's start there.
A: I see them walking down the middle of the street. And first thing that struck me was they're walking in the middle of the street. I had already seen a couple cars trying to pa**, but they couldn't have traffic normal because they were in the middle, so one had to stop to let the car go around and then another car would come. And the next thing I noticed was the size of the individuals because either the first one was really small or the second one was really big. And just for the conversation, I didn't know this then, but the first one's name was Dorian Johnson, the second one was Michael Brown. That was discovered, I think, the following day is when I learned the names. I had never seen them before. And then the next thing I notice was that Brown had bright yellow socks on that had green marijuana leaves as a pattern on them. They were the taller socks that go halfway up your shin. As I approached them, I stopped a couple feet in front of Johnson as they are walking towards me, I am going towards them. And I allowed him to keep walking towards my window, which was down. As Johnson came around my driver's side mirror I said, “why don't you guys walk on the sidewalk.” He kept walking, as he is walking he said, “we are almost to our destination.”
Q: Do you think he used those words destination, we are almost to our destination?
A: Yes, ma'am. He said we are almost to our destination and he pointed this direction over my vehicle. So like in a northeasternly (sic) direction. And as he did that, he kept walking and Brown was starting to come around the mirror and as he came around the mirror I said, “well, what's wrong with the sidewalk.” Brown then replied, um, it has vulgar language—
Q: You can say it, say it.
A: Brown then replied, “f** what you have to say.” And when he said that, it drew my attention totally to Brown. It was a very unusual and not expected response from a simple request. When I start looking at Brown, first thing I notice is in his right hand, his hand is full of Cigarillos. And that's when it clicked for me because I now saw the Cigarillos, I looked in my mirror, I did a doublecheck that Johnson was wearing a black shirt, these are the two from the stealing. And they kept walking, as I said, they never once stopped, never got on the sidewalk, they stayed in the middle of the road. So I got on my radio and Frank 21 is my call sign that day, I said Frank 21 I'm on Canfield with two, send me another car. I then placed my car in reverse and backed up and I backed up just past them and then angled my vehicle, the back of my vehicle to kind of cut them off kind to keep them somewhat contained. As I did that, I go to open the door and I say, hey, come here for a minute to Brown. As I'm opening the door he turns, faces me, looks at me and says, “what the f** are you going to do about it”, and shuts my door, slammed it shut. I haven't even got it open enough to get my leg out, it was only a few inches. I then looked at him and told him to get back and he was just staring at me, almost like to intimidate me or to overpower me. The intense face he had was just not what I expected from any of this. I then opened my door again and used my door to push him backwards, and while I'm doing that I tell him to, “get the f** back”, and then I use my door to push him.
Q: You tell him to, “get the f** back”?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay.
A: He then grabs my door again and shuts my door. At that time is when I saw him coming into my vehicle. His head was higher than the top of my car. And I see him ducking and as he is ducking, his hands are up and he is coming in my vehicle. I had shielded myself in this type of manner and kind of looked away, so I don't remember seeing him come at me, but I was hit right here in the side of the face with a fist. I don't think it was a full-on swing, I think it was a full-on swing, but not a full shot. I think my arm deflected some of it, but there was still a significant amount of contact that was made to my face.
Q: Now, he was hitting you with what hand?
A: I believe it was his right, just judging by how we were situated.
Q: Right.
A: But like I said, I had turned away, had my eyes, I was shielding myself.
Q: Where did you see the Cigarillos at?
A: They were in his right hand.
Q: Okay. Were there any broken Cigarillos or anything in your car later?
A: No, I don't remember seeing anything on the ground or anything.
Q: Okay.
A: After he hit me then, it stopped for a second. He kind of like, I remember getting hit and he kind of like grabbed and pulled, and then it stopped. When I looked up, if this is my car door, I'm sitting here facing that way, he's here. He turns like this and now the Cigarillos I see in his left hand. He's going like this and he says, “hey man, hold these.”
Q: So you start out with Cigarillos in his right hand?
A: Correct.
Q: At this point they are in his left hand?
A: Correct.
Q: He didn't have like two hands of Cigarillos?
A: No, I only saw them in one hand.
Q: You only saw them in one, okay, go ahead.
A: And he reaches back and he says, “hey man, hold these.” I'm a**uming to Johnson, but I couldn't see Johnson from my line of sight.
Q: But you could tell he was giving Johnson Cigarillos?
A: Yes, I saw them in his hand go around.
Q: All right.
A: And he said, “hey man, hold these.” And at that point I tried to hold his right arm because it was like this at my car. This is my car window. I tried to hold his right arm and use my left hand to get out to have some type of control and not be trapped in my car any more. And when I grabbed him, the only way I can describe it is I felt like a five-year-old holding onto Hulk Hogan.
Q: Holding onto a what?
A: Hulk Hogan, that's just how big he felt and how small I felt just from grasping his arm. And as I'm trying to open the door is when, and I can't really get it open because he is standing only maybe 6 inches from my door, but as I was trying to pull the handle, I see his hand coming back around like this and he hit me with this part of his right here, just a full swing all the way back around and hit me right here. (indicating) After he did that, next thing I remember is how do I get this guy away from me. What do I do not to get beaten inside my car. I remember having my hands up and I thought to myself, you know, what do I do. I considered using my mace, however, I wasn't willing to sacrifice my left hand, which is blocking my face to go for it. I couldn't reach around on my right to get it and if I would have gotten it out, the chances of it being effective were slim to none. His hands were in front of his face, it would have blocked the mace from hitting him in the face and if any of that got on me, I know what it does to me and I would have been out of the game. I wear contacts, if that touches any part of my eyes, then I can't see at all. Like I said, I don't carry a taser, I considered my asp, but to get that out since I kind of sit on it, I usually have to lean forward and pull myself forward to the steering wheel to get it out. Again, I wasn't willing to let go of the one defense I had against being hit. The whole time, I can't tell you if he was swinging at me or grabbing me or pushing me or what, but there was just stuff going on and I was looking down figuring out what to do. Also, when I was grabbing my asp, I knew if I did even get it out, I'm not going to be able to expand it inside the car or am I going to be able to make a swing that will be effective in any manner. Next I considered my flashlight. I keep that on the pa**enger side of the car. I wasn't going to, again, reach over like this to grab it and then even if I did grab it, would it even be effective. We are so close and confined. So the only other option I thought I had was my gun. I drew my gun, I turned. It is kind of hard to describe it, I turn and I go like this. He is standing here. I said, “get back or I'm going to shoot you.” He immediately grabs my gun and says, “you are too much of a p**y to shoot me.” The way he grabbed it, do you have a picture?
Q: I do have some pictures of your gun. Well, you can tell us if it is your gun, I believe it is.
A: My gun was basically pointed this way. I'm in my car, he's here, it is pointed this way, but he grabs it with his right hand, not his left, he grabs with his right one and he twists it and then he digs it down into my hip. (indicating)
MS. WHIRLEY: Kathi, can you do the computer? I'm going to let you see these photos from Grand Jury Exhibit Number 10, and there's some numbers on the back of these photos just so we can keep track of what you are looking at. And I'm going to announce what they are and then I will let you tell us a little bit about them, okay?
A: All right.
Q: Let me just get my gla**es. These are Grand Jury Exhibit Number 10, but the photo that I'm showing you is 60, 66, 63, so they're not in order and then 69, so if you could look at all of those photos. And tell me if that represents what you know to be your weapon and your ammunition?
A: Yes, it does
Q: Let me see if we can get this, let me try to get this started. We'll talk a little bit about while we're working on that. So those are photos of your weapons; is that correct?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: And would those photos help you to sort of explain or to explain to the grand jurors what took place regarding the struggle with your weapon that you were trying to describe to us?
A: I think this would be the most helpful.
Q: Okay. And we are going to put it on the projector as soon as we can and have you, you know, tell us what's going on. I have a few other questions while we are waiting on that. So during the time that he's, you said Michael Brown is striking you in the face through the car door?
A: Right.
Q: And it was your opinion that you needed to pull out your weapon because why did you feel that way, I don't want to put words in your mouth?
A: I felt that another one of those punches in my face could knock me out or worse. I mean it was, he's obviously bigger than I was and stronger and the, I've already taken two to the face and I didn't think I would, the third one could be fatal if he hit me right.
Q: You thought he could hit you and it would be a fatal injury?
A: Or at least unconscious and then who knows what would happen to me after that.
Q: There you go, thank you, Kathi. You had not ever met Michael Brown or Dorian Johnson before this date?
A: No, ma'am.
Q: Never had any interaction with them at all?
A: No, ma'am.
Q: Okay. So this is Number 60. Why don't you come over here, Darren Wilson, and kind of tell us.
A: If you picture that—
Q: You can do it from there?
A: I can probably show with my hands.
Q: You want to use this to kind of?
A: No, I'll just do it with my hands. If that's pointed at me, I'm holding that like this. So it is pointed at, I would be Brown, he grabbed with his hand over the top like this manner and then twisted it down like this. And when it twisted, it ended up being like this in my hip. That's all I needed that for. (indicating)
Q: That's all you needed?
A: Yeah, just so I can show them how it twisted and went down into my hip.
Q: Okay. Since we have the projector up, let's look at some of the photographs because you did go to the doctor or to the hospital; is that right?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: And you mentioned being struck in the face before you pulled your weapon?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: So let's just look at those before we move on since we are here. These are also from State's Exhibit Number, Grand Jury Exhibit Number 10. If you could look at these photos, you do know those to be you, correct?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: All right. So you give me that one, I guess I'm going to let Kathi maybe help me here. This is photo number six. And that's you?
A: Correct.
Q: Is that you at the hospital on August the 9th?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: And why did you go to the hospital?
A: For my face being swollen.
Q: Was there any other injuries that you had other than your face?
A: They had discovered there that I had scratches on the back of my neck.
Q: Okay. Anything else, tell us about your injuries?
A: I had a swollen right cheek, my left they said was swollen, I had scratches around my hairline in the back and I think on the side of my neck, but that's all that I remember.
Q: Any injuries to your hand?
A: No.
Q: Okay, let's see. Show me which one of those photos duplicates the injury to your face?
A: That one you can see the right side of my face swollen pretty good.
Q: Okay. And this is Number 12?
A: That one looks like it has bruising and swelling on it.
Q: Where is the swelling to your face on that one?
A: It was on my right side, that was the main injury.
Q: Point to it for us?
MS. ALIZADEH: Here, if you want to use the laser pointer, hopefully it will work.
A: Right in this area. (indicating)
Q: (By Ms. Whirley) That's the swelling to your face?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: Okay. And this is Number 30 and you said this depicts the swelling too?
A: I think it shows the bruising on the side of my face.
Q: The bruising on the side of your face. And kind of show us where you see the bruising?
A: This area right here. (indicating)
MS. WHIRLEY: Yes. Can we pa** those around?
MS. ALTZADEH: I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to.
A: That was kind of the same.
Q: (By Ms. Whirley) Okay. This is number 24?
MS. ALTZADEH: Wait a minute, there is two.
MS. WHIRLEY: 24 is what I'm trying to look at.
MS. ALIZADEH: This is 27.
MS. WHIRLEY: This is 24. Now, what are we looking at there?
A: That's the left side of my face.
Q: (By Ms. Whirley) So you had, describe what we are looking at?
A: I can't really tell from that.
Q: Okay.
A: I can't see from this angle.
Q: Let me let you look at it again.
A: I think there was swelling to my face in that area too. I never saw my face after, this is the first I've seen.
Q: Does it look like swelling? You know your face better than we do, does that look like swelling?
A: I can't tell with that angle with the ruler.
Q: You can't tell on that one? What about this one?
A: That one I can tell from down by my, down in this area looks swollen to me.
Q: Okay. And this is Number 27. Were there 21 any other photos that you think kind of show your injuries?
A: This one you can see the scratches in that area.
Q: Okay.
A: Here is a close-up of it.
Q: This is Number 33 and you say you can see scratches on the back of your neck?
A: Right in here. (indicating)
Q: Okay.
A: This is just showing the red marks on my face on this one, on my neck on that one.
Q: Okay. This is Number 54. And you can kind of point to where the red marks are on your neck?
A: It is hard to see on that. It is in this area right there. (indicating)
Q: Okay.
A: Most of those are the same.
Q: Okay. Any more of those you want us to see?
A: It is hard to tell from the pictures and that angle. I think the best one was looking straight forward at me.
Q: Okay. And they've already got those. All right, thank you. All right. So you suffered the injury to your face and you showed us where the gun was grabbed and at the time when there is a struggle for the gun, take us from there.
A: He grabs my gun, says, “you are too much of a p**y to shoot me.” The gun goes down into my hip and at that point I thought I was getting shot. I can feel his fingers try to get inside the trigger guard with my finger and I remember envisioning a bullet going into my leg. I thought that was the next step.
Q: I'm going to stand back so you can talk a little louder.
A: As I'm looking at it, I'm not paying attention to him, all I can focus on is just this gun in my leg. I was able to kind of shift like this and then push it down, because he is pushing down like to keep it pinned on my leg. So when I slid, I let him use his momentum to push it down and it was kind of pointed to where the seat buckle would attach on the floorboard on the side of my car. Next thing I remember putting my left hand on it like this, putting my elbow into the back of my seat and just pushing with all I could forward.
Q: Were you saying anything?
A: I don't know.
Q: You don't know if he was saying either?
A: I heard stuff, but I couldn't tell you what it was.
Q: Okay.
A: Like I said, I was just so focused on getting the gun out of me. When this point, he is still holding onto it and I pulled the trigger and nothing happens, it just clicked. I pull it again, it just clicked again. At this point I'm like why isn't this working, this guy is going to k** me if he gets ahold of this gun. I pulled it a third time, it goes off. When it went off, it shot through my door panel and my window was down and gla** flew out of my door panel. I think that kind of startled him and me at the same time. When I see the gla** come up, it comes, a chunk about that big comes across my right hand and then I notice I have blood on the back of my hand. After seeing the blood on my hand, I looked at him and he was, this is my car door, he was here and he kind of stepped back and went like this. And then after he did that, he looked up at me and had the most intense aggressive face. The only way I can describe it, it looks like a demon, that's how angry he looked. He comes back towards me again with his hands up. At that point I just went like this, I tried to pull the trigger again, click, nothing happened.
Q: When you say he came back up to you with his hands up, describe to us what he is doing?
A: Last thing I saw was this coming at me.
Q: Was it a fist?
A: I just saw his hands up, I don't know if they were closed yet, on the way to going closed, I saw this and that face coming at me again, and I just went like this and I shielded my face.
Q: And you did what?
A: Went like this and shielded my face.
Q: Did he hit you at that time?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. Go ahead.
A: So I pulled the trigger, it just clicks that time. Without even looking, I just grab the top of my gun, the slide and I racked it, and I put my, still not looking just holding my hand up, I pulled the trigger again, it goes off. When I look back after that—
Q: So how many times does it go off in the car?
A: It went off twice in the car. Pull, 5 click, click, went off, click, went off. So twice in the car.
Q: Are you certain?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay.
A: When I look up after that, I see him start to run and I see a cloud of dust behind him. I then get out of my car. As I'm getting out of the car I tell dispatch, “shots fired, send me more cars.” We start running, kind of the same direction that Johnson had pointed. Across the street like a diagonal towards this, kind of like where the parking lot came in for Copper Creek Court and Canfield, right at that intersection. And there is a light pole right there, I remember him running towards the light pole. We pa** two cars that were behind my police car while we were running. I think the second one was Pontiac Grand Am, a green one. I don't know if it was a two door or four door, I just remember seeing a Pontiac green Grand Am. When I pa**ed the second one, about that same time he stopped running and he is at that light pole. So when he stopped, I stopped. And then he starts to turn around, I tell him to get on the ground, get on the ground. He turns, and when he looked at me, he made like a grunting, like aggravated sound and he starts, he turns and he's coming back towards me. His first step is coming towards me, he kind of does like a stutter step to start running. When he does that, his left hand goes in a fist and goes to his side, his right one goes under his shirt in his waistband and he starts running at me.
Q: You say under his shirt?
A: Yes.
Q: Was he wearing a shirt that was longer than his waistband?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: So he goes up under the shirt?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. Go ahead.
A: That was all done, like I said, the first step, his first stride coming back towards me. As he is coming towards me, I tell, keep telling him to get on the ground, he doesn't. I shoot a series of shots. I don't know how many I shot, I just know I shot it. I know I missed a couple, I don't know how many, but I know I hit him at least once because I saw his body kind of jerk or flenched. I remember having tunnel vision on his right hand, that's all, I'm just focusing on that hand when I was shooting. Well, after the last shot my tunnel vision kind of opened up. I remember seeing the smoke from the gun and I kind of looked at him and he's still coming at me, he hadn't slowed down. At this point I start backpedaling and again, I tell him get on the ground, get on the ground, he doesn't. I shoot another round of shots. Again, I don't recall how many him every time. I know at least once because he flinched again. At this point it looked like he was almost bulking up to run through the shots, like it was making him mad that I'm shooting at him. And the face that he had was looking straight through me, like I wasn't even there, I wasn't even anything in his way. Well, he keeps coming at me after that again, during the pause I tell him to get on a the ground, get on the ground, he still keeps coming at me, gets about 8 to 10 feet away. At this point I'm backing up pretty rapidly, I'm backpedaling pretty good because I know if he reaches me, he'll k** me. And he had started to lean forward as he got that close, like he was going to just tackle me, just go right through me.
Q: Can you demonstrate for us how he was leaning forward?
A: His hand was in a fist at his side, this one is in his waistband under his shirt, and he was like this. Just coming straight at me like he was going to run right through me. And when he gets about that 8 to 10 feet away, I look down, I remember looking at my sites and firing, all I see is his head and that's what I shot. I don't know how many, I know at least once because I saw the last one go into him. And then when it went into him, the demeanor on his face went blank, the aggression was gone, it was gone, I mean, I knew he stopped, the threat was stopped. When he fell, he fell on his face. And I remember his feet coming up, like he had so much momentum carrying him forward that when he fell, his feet kind of came up a little bit and then they rested. At that point I got back on the radio and said, “send me a supervisor and every car you got.”
Q: Okay. So when the shots were first fired in your car, you said you believe you fired two shots in the car?
A: Yes, two actually went off in the car. Two went off in the car.
Q: And at this point, the second shot, is that when he ran?
A: After the second shot, yes.
Q: After the second shot. Are you still in the car?
A: When he starts to run?
Q: Yes.
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: Okay. Do you, at that time, do you say shots fired?
A: As I'm exiting the car to chase him, yes.
Q: Did you know that radio dispatch did not go out?
A: No, I didn't find out until later while I was actually driving back to the station that my portable radio was on channel 3 and our main channel was channel 1.
Q: So nobody heard you say shots fired to your knowledge?
A: To my knowledge.
Q: Okay.
A: They did ask me why my radio for the car was laying on the floorboard, asked me if I used that. I don't remember using that radio. I, for some reason, remember using this one. It could have been sitting in my lap, there is also that chance that I used that one. I don't know which one that used.
MS. ALTZADEH: I'm sorry, when you say your radio, you mean the mike—
A: The mike, yes, ma'am.
MS. ALTZADEH: —for the radio? The radio is attached to the dash, correct?
A: Yes, it is in the center console. So the mike was probably in my lap at some point.
MS. ALTZADEH: The mike, okay.
Q: (By Ms. Whirley) All right. So you're in the car, you fire two shots and he's running and you chase after him and tell us your rationale, what you are thinking now?
A: When I'm chasing him?
Q: Yes. You get out of the car and run after him.
A: My main goal was to keep eyes on him and just to keep him contained until I had people coming there. I knew I had already called for backup and I knew they were already in the area for the stealing that was originally reported. So I thought if I can buy 30 seconds of time, that was my original goal when I tried to get him to come to the car. If I could buy 30 seconds of time, someone else will be here, we can make the arrest, nothing happens, we are all good. And it didn't happen that way. So when he ran, you know, just stay with him, someone is going to be here, you know, we'll get him.
Q: And when you, when the second shot was fired inside the car, did you think he was hit at all?
A: No, I thought I missed.
Q: Both shots. You didn't see any blood on him?
A: The first shot, judging by his reaction, he went back, I thought it went through the door and hit him in the leg, in the hip, is what I thought.
Q: Okay.
A: The second one I saw the cloud of dust and him running, I knew I missed.
Q: Okay. So you got out of the car, you are running, you are telling him to stop; is that right?
A: Correct.
Q: And he's not listening?
A: No, not until he gets to that light pole and that's when he stopped.
Q: To what now?
A: He gets to that light pole at that intersection.
Q: Are you firing at him while he's running?
A: No, ma'am.
Q: Is Dorian Johnson anywhere around?
A: I never saw him after the very beginning. Once he walked past my car, I never saw him again.
Q: Okay. All right. And at some point you say Michael Brown does turn around?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: Any idea what happened to make him turn around or he just all of the sudden turns around?
A: No, just turns around. His whole reaction to the whole thing was something I've never seen. I've never seen that much aggression so quickly from a simple request to just walk on the sidewalk.
Q: Okay. Because you never did talk to him about the Cigarillos or the stealing at the Ferguson Market?
A: No, I never had the chance to.
Q: All right. You said when he's coming back at you with his hand, right hand in his waistband and kind of charging, that's when you fired the last 10 shots?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: And he went down?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: Did you think he was dead at that point?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: What did you do after that when he goes down?
A: After that is when I got back on the radio and I said, “send me a supervisor and every car you 20 have.” Seconds later, I don't know how many seconds later, is when Officer _____ followed by Officer _____ arrived. And I believe they were the ones that were a**igned to the stealing call originally. walked up to me and said, Darren, what do you need.
MS. ALIZADEH: Said what?
A: Darren, what do you need. I don't remember what my reply was and he said, did you call for an ambulance. I said I haven't, will you. I remember him calling twice, like he was about from me to you away on the radio calling. And then I look across and was starting to tape off the area, but I notice that all of our cars are parked this way, Brown is laying here, there is nothing on this side. I told _____ to move his car to this side to block that side of the street off. He did that and then he resumed taping. After that I walked to my car and I put my gun up, I start walking away from the scene. As I'm walking away, I walk back to my car and I don't know if the door was open or shut, I think it was shut. I open the door, I reach in, I turn my car off, shut the door. At that time my sergeant pulled up and I walked over to him.
Q: (By Ms. Whirley) This is Sergeant _____?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: Okay.
A: I don't remember what started the conversation, he said something first, but I said I have to tell you what happened. And he goes, what happened. I said, I had to k** him. He goes, you what? I said, he grabbed my gun, I shot him, I k**ed him. He goes, go sit in the car. I said, I cannot sit in the car. I remember him saying, Darren, sit in the car. I said, Sarge, I can't be singled out. It is already getting hostile, I can't be singled out in the car. I will leave if you want me to leave. He said, take my car and leave. So I got in his car and drove to the police station.
Q: In your mind him grabbing the gun is what made the difference where you felt you had to use a weapon to stop him?
A: Yes. Once he was hitting me in the face, that enough, was in my mind to authorize the use of force.
Q: Okay. So if he would not have grabbed your gun while he was hitting you in the face, everything was the same, but he would not have grabbed the gun, you still would have used deadly force?
A: My gun was already being presented as a deadly force option while he was hitting me in the face.
Q: Okay, all right. So then you go to the station?
A: Yes.
Q: And what happens, you go alone?
A: Yes.
Q: And before you leave for the station, there is a crowd developing, right?
A: Correct.
Q: And do you hear what the crowd is saying? I know you are in a pretty stressful situation, but do you understand or hearing anything that they're saying?
A: I hear yelling, I hear screaming, as I'm walking back to my car, a white Ford truck pulled up and I remember her saying is that so and so? It was a female driver that got out. _____ said, ma'am, we don't know. I heard her say, I think it is so and so, and then she screamed and that's all I heard. I could hear other noises and screaming, but I couldn't hear.
Q: Okay. We're going to go with you to the station in just a minute, but I wanted to ask you about your relationship with the residents in the Canfield Green Apartments.
A: Uh-huh.
Q: Did you guys have a volatile, well, how can I put this. Did you not really get along well with the folks that lived in that apartment, not you personally, I mean the police in general?
A: It is an antipolice area for sure.
Q: And when you say antipolice, tell me more?
A: There's a lot of gangs that reside or a**ociate with that area. There's a lot of violence in that area, there's a lot of gun activity, drug activity, it is just not a very well-liked community. That community doesn't like the police.
Q: Were you pretty much on high alert being in that community by yourself, especially when Michael Brown said, “f** what you say,” I think he said?
A: Yes.
Q: You were on pretty high alert at that point knowing the vicinity and the area that you're in?
A: Yes, that's not an area where you can take anything really lightly. Like I said, it is a hostile environment. There are good people over there, there really are, but I mean there is an influx of gang activity in that area.
Q: All right. So you're driving yourself back to Ferguson, what are you thinking on the drive back to Ferguson?
A: I think I'm just kind of in shock of what just happened, I really didn't believe it because like I said, the whole thing started over will you just walk on the sidewalk and it developed into that in 45 seconds. And that's the only other thing I remember thinking about is I heard the car radio going off and mine wasn't. That doesn't make sense. So I hit the scan bu*ton on mine thinking the scan bu*ton got messed up, I wasn't getting everything. And I did that and it still, this one is going off and mine's not. So then I looked channel 3. I was like, I don't know what was heard or what wasn't heard.
Q: And that's when you realized that you probably, nobody probably even heard your call for help?
A: Right. I know they heard the initial one because before I put it in reverse I used the car radio, the car mike, which is always on Ferguson channel, it never changes, but I don't know when this one was changed, if they even heard anything.
Q: When you first went out on your call to Canfield Green, you said, I'm going out Frank 21?
A: Frank 21..
Q: I'm going out with two, send me a car?
A: I said, “Frank 21, I'm on Canfield with two, send me another car.”
Q: It wasn't a stressful situation at that point?
A: No, it wasn't, but I just had that gut feeling that someone else needed to be there and knowing that this guy just stole from the market because I saw the Cigarillos and had the black shirt, I felt that in order to affect the arrest, it would be better to have.
Q: You asked for this other car before any words were exchanged, correct
A: No, he had already told me, “f** what you have to say.”
Q: Before you asked for the car, when you said I'm Frank 21, I'm at Canfield Green, send me a car. He had already said, “f** what you have to say?”
A: Yeah, he had already walked past by my car and said that.
Q: Okay.
A: That's when I saw the Cigarillos when he said that and he kept walking. Then I got on the radio and said, “send me another car.”
Q: You didn't tell the dispatcher that you were having a confrontation or that you had these guys who might be the suspects in the stealing?
A: No.
Q: You didn't say that to the dispatcher when you said send me a car?
A: No, it was kind of said in a quicker way, just kind of hey, I want to get the information out, get a car started and once more develops, I can advise them of more.
Q: But you never had a chance to do that?
A: No, I didn't.
Q: Okay. All right. So you drive back to Ferguson by yourself, you are at Ferguson, what do you do?
A: I immediately go to the bathroom. On the way back I found that I had blood on the inside of my left hand and I already know I had it on the back of my right hand. And just from everything we have always been taught about blood, you don't want it on you, you don't touch it, you don't come in contact with it. And my original thought was that it was the gla** had cut my wrist and cut my hand, which is why this hand was bleeding. And so thinking that I was cut with someone else's blood on me, I had to wash my hands. So I go directly to the bathroom. I actually washed them, went to the bathroom and then I looked, like I still had it like in my cuticles and stuff, so I washed my hands again. After I washed my hands, I go to our roll call room.
Q: Let me ask you this, was there a lot of blood?
A: From like my finger tips to about here was blood.
Q: Like dripping blood?
A: No, just on the back of my hand, it wasn't liked wraparound like I dipped my hand in blood, but there was like blood on the back of my hand.
Q: One of the grand jurors asked earlier, you may know the answer to the question, was there blood left like in Sergeant _____'s car after you got out of it?
A: I don't know, I did call him and say, I don't know who is going to drive your car later, but I had blood on my hands. You might want to tell them to wipe down the steering wheel or just be cautious of it because I never went back and looked at the car.
Q: I see. Okay, so go ahead, after you wash your hands?
A: I then go down the hallway to the roll call room. Once in there, Officer _____ was in there working on the computer.
Q: Which officer,
A: _____
Q: Do you need that spelled? Spell that, please?
A: _____
Q: And that's a _____ officer?
A: Yes.
Q: And that's a friend of yours?
A: Yeah,
Q: Okay. So _____ there at the station?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. Go ahead.
A: I come in, _____ looks at me _____ said, you know, what happened. And I said, I just had to shoot somebody. And was kind of in shock and had had, the computer _____ was working on in front of _____ the one next to _____ had, what we call the 9 CADament screen, it just shows the status of all the cars where they're at. Well, on that one it is showing all the Ferguson cars out on Canfield. _____ goes, I was really hoping you weren't involved in that, you know, because any time every car is involved, you really don't know what is going to happen, who is going to get hurt.
Q: What was _____ doing, what was _____ duty that day?
A: _____ was working for court, was doing paperwork, entering warrants for them.
Q: So wasn't working the radio or dispatch or anything like that?
A: No.
Q: And _____ didn't know what had happened?
A: No.
Q: _____ just knew a lot of cars were going there?
A: _____ just saw the cars, didn't even know what the call was. I think they had it as a disturbance, so didn't even know what it was.
Q: Okay.
A: I go in there, I asked _____ to go get me a pair of gloves. ______ goes gets me a pair of gloves, _____ comes back, put the gloves on. I grab an evidence envelope, take my gun out of the holster, make it safe. I lock the slide back, take the magazine out, take the one round that's left in it out. I put it all in that bag, seal it with evidence tape and then sign it.
Q: And you handled your gun at that time with gloves on?
A: Correct.
Q: And why did you do that?
A: To preserve any evidence on there, I knew his DNA was on that gun.
Q: How did you know his DNA was on the gun?
A: When I first took it out, without even looking at it, I knew that he had fingerprints on it and possibly even sweat from, it was warmer that day so, and he could have sweat on it. When I took it out, I also saw blood on it.
Q: You saw blood?
A: Yes.
Q: And that could have been from when you shot him?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. Is it procedure for you to make your gun safe in a shooting like this or should someone else do that?
A: I don't really know.
Q: Because that never happened to you before?
A: Correct.
Q: And you never investigated this type of crime?
A: No, I have not.
Q: Not crime, but situation before?
A: Correct.
Q: Okay. All right. So you made, but you knew how to make the gun safe and put it in an evidence envelope based on your training and experience?
A: Yes, I was just trying to preserve all the evidence I could on the weapon. And I knew if I put it in an evidence envelope and sealed it, that it would have no other contact with anybody and it could be as preserved as you could get.
Q: Okay. All right. And then what?
A: I sat down and called for my attorney, who represents police for the union. He said he would be on his way. Officer _____ came in, he gave me the card for the application for the Fraternal Order of Police. I said, I already called them. He said, would you like to tell me what happened so I can tell the media? I said, no, I don't want to talk right now. Lieutenant came _____ in, he's actually my lieutenant who was off that day. He came in and said, has anybody told you what's happening? I said, I don't really know anything that's going on there. I left the scene pretty much right after. He said St. Louis County is investigating. I said okay, and then he left. And then right after he left, Ferguson Fire Department and EMS from Christian Northeast Hospital showed up. They stayed about this far away, they didn't actually come in the room. And they asked what happened? I said, I was hit in the face multiple times. They asked where? I pointed this side, that side. They asked if I lost consciousness? I said, no. My vision was blurry? I said, no. Asked if I needed to go to the hospital? I said, no, not right now. So is there anything else we can do for you? I said, no, not right now, and then they left. About 20 minutes later is when my attorney, showed up and we talked for about 10 or 15 minutes. My a**istant chief showed up, he came in and he made the determination that we should go to the hospital, he could see the swelling on my face. So he drove, before we left, Detective _____ from St. Louis County arrived, informed us he would be investigating the case and kind of gave us the rundown of what to expect. And then he agrees with going to the hospital. So my a**istant chief drove me and _____ to the hospital and Detective followed.
Q: Okay. And those photos that we looked at a minute ago were you at the hospital, correct?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: And then what happened after that?
A: At the hospital we did the interview. And when I went to the hospital, I didn't wear my uniform shirt, I took that off and my vest off, left it at the station, left my duty belt at the station.
Q: Did someone tell you to do that?
A: Yeah, and I felt more comfortable too because I obviously can't wear my gun, and I don't want to be in uniform after all of this without it. So I took the shirt off, just my undershirt, my pants, my boots, go to the hospital. While waiting to be treated in the waiting room, not in the waiting room, in the actual hospital room, Detective _____ began his interview and then stopped as needed for nurses, whoever came in. They took x-rays, prescribed me a paink**er for the face injuries. St. Louis County's evidence technician arrived, he photographed everything. I don't know who it is, but he came from whoever the department uses for drug tests, they gave me the drug tests. And then after that, I think he left and then the a**istant chief drove me and back to the station. He had already made a phone call, the a**istant chief did to have Officer _____ get a change of clothes for me, so they were going to take my clothes. They had blood on my left hip area. So when I get back I change, St. Louis County took my pants, shirt, they already had my weapon, and then that was it, I went home for the day.
Q: Okay. You have been on administrative leave since then?
A: Correct.
Q: Okay. In your, well, first of all, you have been a police officer for how long?
A: Five years.
Q: Five years. You started out with Jennings?
A: Correct.
Q: Why did you leave Jennings?
A: Whenever Jennings was disbanded, I wasn't officered a position by St. Louis County.
Q: Did you apply for a position?
A: Yes, I did. I just wasn't one of the ones selected.
Q: All right. So you went to Ferguson?
A: Correct.
Q: Those are the only two departments you have been?
A: I actually worked for Pine Lawn for about eight hours.
Q: Eight hours?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. Did you leave voluntarily?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: After eight hours?
A: Yes.
Q: Any other incidents where you have been involved where you had to use excessive force?
A: I've never used my weapon before.
Q: Not excessive force, where you have had to use force to affect an arrest?
A: I've used my asp before, I have used my flashlight before and I have used OC spray before.
Q: Okay. And in those incidents though, no one was injured?
A: No.
Q: Okay. All right.
MS. WHIRLEY: Anyone else have questions? I have a few more, but if you have something. Yes, _____.
JUROR: I just, hopeful you don't take any offense, I just have a question. You worked for Pine Lawn for eight hours, Jennings, you worked for Ferguson?
A: Correct.
JUROR: Have you always worked in predominantly African-American neighborhoods?
A: Yes, I have.
JUROR: You have.
A: Yes.
JUROR: No problem until this time?
A: Correct.
JUROR: Okay.
JUROR: I want to go back to when Sergeant _____ arrived there. You told him that you had to k** him. Was that the extent of your conversation or did you tell him sort of like you are telling us play by play what happened?
A: No, it was very brief and he was more focused with the scene than he was, I guess, with me at the moment because like I said, the crowd, it was not a good area. He had made, I had made those comments to him and his reaction was go sit down.
JUROR: If you would go back to the contact in the car, after you had put it in reverse and reengaged to have a conversation, and Michael Brown reached into the car with his right hand and you said at a certain point that you looked in the mirror to see Dorian Johnson because that's how you recognized him with his black shirt?
A: I did that before the car was placed in reverse.
JUROR: Oh, before, okay.
A: Yes.
JUROR: Go over that again with me, which mirror were you looking at?
A: My driver's side mirror on the outside of the car.
JUROR: Okay.
A: Whenever they walked me and I saw the Cigarillos. I'd already saw that Dorian Johnson had on a black shirt, but just to double-check myself to match up with what I heard Cigarillos had been stolen and a suspect wearing a black shirt, I looked to make sure the shirt was black.
JUROR: Okay.
A: And then I called out for the a**ist car and then placed it in reverse and backed up to him.
JUROR: Thank you.
A: You're welcome.
MS. ALIZADEH: Officer Wilson, I have a few questions. Prior to today, at any time after this incident have you seen any reports of any kind, medical examiner's reports, police reports, hospital reports, anything of that nature?
A: The only report I've seen was the one released on the news about the initial stealing.
Q: So that is the Ferguson report that was filed in relation to the theft of the Cigarillos?
A: Correct.
Q: And when you, the vehicle that you were in, I'm guessing that is not equipped with any cameras or mikes?
A: No, it is not.
Q: To record what was going on, correct?
A: Correct.
Q: Any of the Ferguson officer's vehicles equipped with that type of equipment?
A: No, ma'am.
Q: You don't wear a body mike?
A: No, ma'am.
Q: Now, your duty holster that you've described or your duty belt has the holster attached to it, correct?
A: Correct.
Q: Is it the type of holster that there's a snap that goes over the gun that you have to unsnap before the gun is removed from the holster?
A: No, it doesn't have the strap on the top, there is a bu*ton on the outside of it that you push as you are pulling up and it releases it.
Q: Okay. And is that something that, I mean, as a police officer, you have to train at the firing range, is that fair to say?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: And is part of your training learning how to quickly get your gun out of your holster?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: When you called in and said you had two on 24 Canfield or two out, I think you said?
A: I said, “Frank, I'm on Canfield with two, send me another car.”
Q: With two. And why didn't you say anything about asking again, what was that description of the two involved in the larceny, did you ask for any other details to insure in your own mind that maybe these, you know, were these the guys?
A: No, because my initial focus was just to get the information out that was there. Have the other car respond and then get to that. My whole goal was to just stall until someone got there.
Q: Well, you've made previous statements about that, this incident, and one being initially to Sergeant _____.
A: Uh-huh.
Q: Would you say that was kind of a brief, not a lot of detail statement, would that be fair to say?
A: The one on scene?
Q: On scene.
A: Yeah, it was very brief.
Q: And then you talked to Detective ____.
A: Correct.
Q: At the hospital. And that was a little more detailed, would that be fair to say?
A: Yes.
Q: You didn't say anything to about the Cigarillos, did you?
A: Yes.
Q: You believe you did?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: Did you tell that when you saw him with his left hand reaching back and he made the statement here, hold these or whatever, that you saw what was in his hand?
A: I had saw the flash of them going back behind him.
Q: So you didn't see at that point what was in his hand?
A: I could see the red and white wrapper of a Cigarillo in his hand.
Q: Okay. Just so I can be sure I'm understanding you, did you see that they were Cigarillos or did you a**ume they were Cigarillos?
A: I a**umed they were Cigarillos at that point. I saw that they were in his right hand before the contact was made.
Q: But you didn't notice as his hand, his right hand comes in the vehicle, and initially contacts your face, you don't notice that he has these packages or package with red and white wrappers, you don't see them as he is hitting you?
A: No, because I had shielded myself and I believe I even closed my eyes.
Q: Did you ever grab ahold, you said that you grabbed ahold of his right hand at some point?
A: It was like his forearm, it was this area. (indicating)
Q: His right forearm?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: And what were you doing when you grabbed ahold of his right forearm?
A: Trying to move him and somewhat control him so I could get out of the car.
Q: Were you ever pulling him to try to pull him into the vehicle?
A: No, I was trying to open my car door with my left hand and then hold onto him as I did so.
Q: So you've got your left hand, or what's holding his right hand?
A: My right hand.
Q: You are like this? (indicating)
A: Yes.
Q: And you are like this trying to open your door? (indicating)
A: Yes.
Q: And this is before you've gone for your gun?
A: Yes.
Q: The first shot you've described pretty, I guess, in detail. I think I understand the first shot. The second shot you said you kind of weren't looking, I guess?
A: Uh-huh.
Q: Where was your gun pointed?
A: His general direction.
Q: Was your gun above the level of the door frame?
A: I would say, yes. It had come up, it was not on my leg any more and my leg sits only that far away from the top of the window. So I remember doing it like this, having my gun up.
Q: And you said you saw a little puff of dust or dirt that you a**ume was where a projectile might have landed in the dirt; is that correct?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: So your gun wasn't pointed like up in the air, would that be fair to say?
A: Not that I'm aware of, correct.
Q: Was your gun, if you had rolled up your window, let's just say, was your gun totally inside the vehicle, partially out of the vehicle, or was your hand extended so that the gun was totally outside of your vehicle?
A: I don't know for sure, but it was my right hand with it and was like this. So I don't know where it could have gone.
Q: And I was using my left hand, I guess, to demonstrate, you are right handed?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: And so you were across your body?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: And you said you had turned your face somewhat?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: And at that point Michael Brown is not right up on the vehicle, is that fair to say?
A: No, this is when he is coming back at the vehicle. He is only about a foot away and then after the first shot hit him, he went down and kind of held his hip for a second and then he came back up and started to come back in the vehicle. And that's when I just went like this and I pulled the trigger.
Q: Did you give him any kind of warning before that second shot?
A: I don't recall.
Q: (By Ms. Whirley) You said you knew the area and you felt threatened in that area because there is violence and guns and everything, and that Michael Brown was being confrontational before the first blow, correct?
A: Yes.
Q: Is there any reason why you didn't wait in the car until your backup came?
A: I thought I would be able to just stall until someone got there. I thought the car, I could maintain the distance that I need to maintain, they were close. I figure all I needed was 20 or 30 seconds and someone is going to be there.
Q: Right. So why wouldn't you stay in the car?
A: Because I had already been, my comfort zone is not to be sitting in the car talking to someone else. I wanted to be out of the car, that way if I need to run I can run.
Q: You can run?
A: If I was out and he started like chasing me or went to hit me, I could move.
Q: You are in a car, you are more mobile in a car than you are on foot, right?
A: Right. But I also didn't want him to run away, so I need to kind of stay where I can keep him there, keep myself safe and wait for someone to get there.
MS. WHIRLEY: Okay.
Q: (By Ms. Alizadeh) Now, Officer Wilson, I'm not trying get in your head, I mean, I guess we all are trying to get in your head at some point to know what you were thinking at the time, but, I mean, your initial confrontation or your initial contact with them, I mean, you didn't see any of them with weapons, correct?
A: No.
Q: And they weren't subjects that you knew to be armed and dangerous?
A: No.
Q: And you stop and encounter pedestrians probably almost on a daily basis when you are on patrol, would that be fair to say?
A: Yes.
Q: And so did you at that point have any reason to anticipate that this, that Michael Brown, the Michael Brown subject was going to provoke or be, or a**ault you?
A: No, not at that moment, no.
Q: You described the first shot, was his right hand on the gun when the shot went off?
A: I believe so.
Q: And then the second shot, was his body in contact with you on the second shot?
A: Probably not on the second one. I know when I first pulled the trigger it was, but it didn't shoot and then that's when I racked the gun and then shot again.
Q: And you used both hands, you had to use both hands to rack the gun?
A: Yes, ma'am.
Q: Was he still trying to hit you when you went to rack the gun?
A: I didn't look up.
Q: Okay. So you said you did that without looking and then you just went like that?
A: Yes.
Q: Turned your face away and shot out the window?
A: Yes.
Q: In his general direction?
A: Yes.
Q: And so you can't really say whether his hands were inside the car or outside the car at the time you actually fired the second time, the second shot?
A: No, I can't tell you.
Q: The blood on your pants, do you know how the blood got on your pants?
A: No, I do not.
Q: Do you recall, I mean, when you were done and you notice that you have, you said you had blood on your left palm?
A: Uh-huh.
Q: And on the back of your right hand?
A: Uh-huh.
Q: Did you wipe your palm on your pant leg because it is on your left pant leg, correct?
A: Correct.
Q: Did you wipe your hand on your pant leg to get the blood off your palm?
A: Not that I remember. I didn't see the blood on my palm until I was driving back to the 22 station.
Q: Okay. So you don't recall if you wiped the blood on your pants?
A: No, I don't know.
Q: And when you, at any time after you got back at the station, you went to the bathroom, was there a mirror in the bathroom?
A: Yes.
Q: Could you see any blood on your face?
A: No, I don't remember seeing any on my face.
Q: I would imagine that at some point in your training you have learned something about blood spatter and blood spray and so forth; is that right?
A: It is kind of common knowledge, but no official training on how it works.
Q: I know you are not an expert, but you know that can happen when you are in close range when someone is shot, correct?
A: Yes.
Q: That spray or spatter can get on you?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you ever see anything like that? Obviously, we have seized your clothing and what's on there is what's on there, but did you have any of that on your face or on your forearms or anything like that?
A: I don't recall seeing it on my face. I remember looking, I don't remember washing my face. I would say no, it was not on my face. When I washed my hands, I did wash up like halfway up my forearm just to make sure nothing was on me. I seen it on my hands and I just started washing.
Q: You didn't wash your face then prior to going to the hospital?
A: No.
Q: Did anyone that you recall ever swab your face?
A: The outside of my face?
Q: Yes.
A: Not that I no.
Q: Did anyone swab the back of your hands?
A: No.
MS. ALIZADEH: I don't have anything else.
JUROR: When Michael Brown, I guess, I guess at the point where I want to say it was the second shot, I know this is kind of after the fact. You said he stepped back a little bit and then he came back in on you?
A: That was after the first shot.
JUROR: After the first shot?
A: Yes.
JUROR: Did you ever think about, I know you said your vehicle was running, did you ever just think about getting in that bad boy and drive?
A: No, I didn't. My thought is, I was still dealing with a threat at my car. You know, we're trained not to run away from a threat, to deal with a threat and that is what I was doing. That never entered my mind to flee.
JUROR: Did you ever or do you recall grabbing Michael Brown by the throat?
A: Never touched his throat.
JUROR: Shoulder?
A: No. Only part of him I touched was his right forearm.
JUROR: When Michael Brown was running from you, after the shots were fired within the car and they both just disappeared and you had Michael in focus, did you ever at any time fire with his back facing you?
A: No, I did not.
JUROR: When you asked him to halt, and he turned around and he, you know, stopped running, at any point did you ever think that okay, maybe he don't have a gun, I need to stop shooting?
A: When he was running towards me?
JUROR: Throughout the whole process. You're in the car and someone, you're struggling, tugging back and forth, did you ever think that he had a gun right then and there, he could have used it at any time?
A: I wasn't thinking about that at that time. I was thinking about defending myself whenever he was hitting me in the car.
MS. ALIZADEH: _____
JUROR: So kind of going go on that as well. So the comment that you made to your supervisor Sergeant _____ when he got there at the scene was that he went for my gun, I had to shoot him. I think that kind of goes along with that. Because I think when I hear someone say he went for my gun, if I literally take that comment, I would a**ume that someone literally went to your holster and tried to pull it out. Either unholstering it or literally taking it from you. And in this instance that was not the case. You had already unholstered and you were aiming at him. He essentially in his, your point of view and the point of view of who we can no longer obtain that, he deflected or pushed it towards you but he did not any point try to pull it from your holster is, I guess, my question?
A: He didn't pull it from my holster, but whenever it was visible to him, he then took complete control of it.
MS. ALIZADEH: I can't hear you, sorry.
A: Whenever, he didn't pull it from my holster, but whenever it was displayed to him, he did take complete control. Because he had twisted it around so my hand was no longer this way, it was bent this way and it was dug into my hip. He had complete control of that weapon at that time.
JUROR: Was your hand, I'm sorry, was your hand still on it and finger on the trigger?
A: Yes, ma'am, or yes, sir.
JUROR: I wouldn't say he had complete control, I would say he had some control.
A: He was controlling where it went, how it went there and his finger was in the process of going on the trigger with mine.
JUROR: Okay.
A: I could feel his fingertips on my trigger finger trying to get in the trigger guard.
JUROR: Okay. When I just hear the word complete control, I think it is entirely in his possession and none of yours, that's the way I feel is complete control.
A: Okay.
MS. ALIZADEH: Anyone else have any other questions?
JUROR: What's the chain of command at the Ferguson Police Department from chief down?
A: Chief down would be chief, the a**istant chief and then we have for the patrol side, I believe, our captain's next, the a**istant chief just started a week before this happened. I don't know what was really ironed out between them two. After the captain, it is a lieutenant, sergeant, patrolman.
JUROR: I keep hearing this name, Lieutenant _____?
A: _____.
MS. ALIZADEH: _____.
JUROR: _____.
A: He is the a**istant chief, lieutenant colonel.
JUROR: Okay, thank you.
A: You're welcome.
JUROR: One more question, _____. When you got back to the police department, after you washed off and everything, did you ever think at what time that I need to write a report while it is fresh on my mind?
A: No. The protocol is whenever you are involved in a significant use of force, that you contact your FOP representative and then he will advise you of what to do step by step because they are the clear head in that situation. They have not been through a traumatic experience.
MS. ALIZADEH: And I guess to be fair about this, any time any law enforcement officer has asked to speak to you, you have willingly and voluntarily come in and been interviewed and answered all their questions, is that fair to say?
A: Yes, ma'am.
MS. ALIZADEH: And you've never been back working at Ferguson Police Department since this happened, correct?
A: No, I have not.
MS. ALIZADEH: Did you, I mean, for your own sake, did you like write down in a diary what happened, I mean, not a diary or I guess a grown man would call it a journal, but you know, have you ever like, did you afterwards, you know, write this out for your own, you know, therapeutic needs?
A: My statement has been written for my attorney.
MS. ALIZADEH: Okay. And that's between you and your attorney then?
A: Correct.
MS. ALIZADEH: Okay.
A: The department has not asked me for anything.
MS. ALIZADEH: So no one has asked you to write out a statement.
A: No, they haven't.
MS. ALIZADEH: You didn't just on your own decide I want to write this down while it is all fresh in my mind, you didn't do that yourself?
A: No.
MS. ALIZADEH: This happens in the matter of how many minutes or seconds by the time that you saw them walking down the street until Michael Brown is dead in the street? I would say less than one minute.
MS. ALIZADEH: Less than one minute?
A: Uh-huh.
MS. ALIZADEH: Now, you know, I know you've probably thought about this every day since it's happened, would that be fair to say?
A: Yes.
MS. ALIZADEH: Replayed this in your mind over and over again?
A: Yes.
MS. ALIZADEH: And do you think that after having really thought about this over time and basically you've had to tell this scenario a few times, do you think that if there are additional details that you may not give initially, do you think that's because you're just now remembering them because you are putting so much thought into what happened or do you think that is things that maybe you kind of imagined happened, but didn't really happen, you understand my question?
A: Yeah, just from what I have been told about the incident originally, is that you are supposed to have 72 hours before you are actually officially interviewed, recorded statement and all of that. You tend to remember more through a couple sleep cycles then what you do as soon as it happens. It is a traumatic event, a lot of details kind of come as one detail. I mean, from what I understand, there hasn't been really anything significant that's changed.
MS. ALIZADEH: So you think that when you were testifying today you said you kind of thought, had a thought process. As this chaotic scene is unfolding, do you recall actually in your mind processing this in the way you've described or is it all just reactionary?
A: No, I remember actually, I picture a use of force triangle in my head when this first happened and I was going through the progression of what I could as far as the use of force continuum is concerned.
MS. ALIZADEH: That is something you learned in the police academy then?
A: Yes, ma'am.
MS. ALIZADEH: And you recall actually thinking that as this a**ault is occurring?
A: Yes.
Q: MS. WHIRLEY: At what point did the use of force triangle—
MS. ALIZADEH: Use of force triangle.
Q: MS. WHIRLEY: Use of force triangle come into your head, what was going on when you start seeing the triangle?
A: Whenever I first start considering the spray, the taser.
Q: MS. WHIRLEY: What was going on though?
A: That was when I was being hit after the one to my face.
Q: MS. WHIRLEY: So that was before you went for the weapon, or before you struggled over the weapon you started thinking about the use of force—
A: Yes.
Q: MS. WHIRLEY: —triangle? At any point did Michael Brown raise his hands?
A: No.
Q: MS. WHIRLEY: No.
JUROR: Did you ever think while you were firing that you could have hit another innocent standbyer. (sic)
A: When I originally fired the first time, when he turned around and I raised my weapon, I remember looking behind him and seeing nothing. I didn't see a car, I didn't see a person, there is nothing behind him. And after the first round of shots, I had tunnel vision on his hand. After that, when I refocused, I still don't remember ever seeing anybody behind him.
MS. ALIZADEH: _____.
JUROR: Just a couple questions actually. The first one, we have heard a lot of scenarios and witnesses involved and their timelines and activity. Anyway, we have heard a little bit about what you did that morning when you were on duty. The day before, typical shift, were you off that day?
A: On Friday?
JUROR: On August 8th?
A: I don't remember anything significant. I did work that day, but I don't remember anything significant.
JUROR: You said you did not work that day?
A: I did work that day.
JUROR: Like 6:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m. shift?
A: Yes.
Q: Get a good night's sleep?
A: From what I remember, yes.
Q: Okay. 6 to 8 hours?
A: Yes.
JUROR: Felt rested, ready to go the next day. Just had to ask, curious. And then following the actual incident, you are back in your supervisor's car driving back to Ferguson Police Department. How far is that roughly from the crime scene, the police department?
A: Mile and a half, 2 miles.
JUROR: So very short trip?
A: Yeah.
JUROR: And that was my thought too, but being in communication, I think, you know, in that situation, my first thought is to contact a loved one and say, I can't believe what just happened and that was my thought. If there was any sort of communication from that point moving forward on a personal cell phone or anything else?
A: No.
JUROR: So none whatsoever until you saw the officer at the Ferguson Police Department?
A: Yes.
JUROR: Thank you.
JUROR: Last question.
MS. ALIZADEH: It just left your head.
JUROR: I have it. I'm trying to word it. Dorian, did you ever tell the police chief or any of the other officers that there was another person with him, did you ever try to look for Dorian?
A: No, I haven't talked to the chief or anybody at the department in length about what happened. I told my sergeant what happened at that time, that was the end of our conversations with anybody from the department.
JUROR: This kind 7 of dovetails with her questions about Dorian. I understand that you did an interview August 28th with _____ FBI agent is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. At which time, I hope I'm getting this correct, I believe that there was, did they present to you a photo lineup of suspects or whatever?
A: The Department of Justice did not.
JUROR: The Department of Justice did not, what about the FBI?
A: No.
Q: No one did at that time.
MS. ALIZADEH: I think you might be thinking of the _____ officer, Detective _____.
JUROR: Was that whose evidence?
MS. ALIZADEH: I believe so.
JUROR: Okay. That would have been on the date of, did they give you a photo lineup, Detective _____.
A: I think it was the 10th, I think is when I did the follow-up interview with _____, both detectives.
JUROR: _____, okay. And that would be _____ right?
A: Yes.
JUROR: Okay. And they gave you a photo lineup of, I think, eight characters or whatever?
A: Yes.
JUROR: Okay. And you were required or they asked you to pick out Dorian Johnson at that time?
A: Yes.
JUROR: Were you able to pick him out at that time?
A: I selected who I believe was Dorian Johnson, they never confirmed if it was or not.
JUROR: They never did, okay. You don't know the results of that?
A: No, I do not.
JUROR: Okay, thank you.
MS. ALIZADEH: Just to be clear, you're not _____ in any way, are you?
A: No, I'm not.
MS. ALIZADEH: Prior to this incident, had you ever had any contact with any of the county detectives that you've met throughout this investigation?
A: No, I have not.
Q: Any of the agents, FBI agents or federal agents involved in their investigation?
A: No, I have not.
Q: You felt like your life was in jeopardy when you were sitting in the vehicle?
A: Yes.
Q: You felt like when you exited the vehicle and the interaction with Michael Brown, he was advancing towards you, you felt like your life was in jeopardy?
A: Yes.
Q: And use of deadly force was justified at that point in your opinion?
A: Yes.
MS. ALIZADEH: Sheila?
MS. WHIRLEY: I was just going, if we are sort of done with your questioning, is there something that we have not asked you that you want us to know or you think it is important for the jurors to consider regarding this incident?
A: One thing you guys haven't asked that has been asked of me in other interviews is, was he a threat, was Michael Brown a threat when he was running away. People asked why would you chase him if he was running away now. I had already called for a**istance. If someone arrives and sees him running, another officer and goes around the back half of the apartment complexes and tries to stop him, what would stop him from doing what he just did to me to him or worse, knowing he has already done it to one cop. And that was, he still posed a threat, not only to me, to anybody else that confronted him.
MS. WHIRLEY: Any questions?
JUROR: Along those lines, you feel like as a police officer it is your obligation to follow that suspect?
A: Yes, sir.
MS. ALIZADEH: All right. If that's it then.
(End of the testimony of and the testimony for September 26, 2014.)